In our exclusive interview, the former England seamer discusses the upcoming Test series against India and the Ashes tour of Australia later in the year.
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It’s a big year for England in terms of Test match cricket, how do you see the team coping against India and Australia?
It’s going to be a huge year for England. For me, it’s all about the bowling attack. England’s batters have been ready, maybe not so much for India, but definitely Australia.
The Holy Grail for Ben Stokes, Brendon McCullum, Luke Wright, and Rob Key will be how we win in Australia. That’s the living legacy, if you want a better term for it. The seven batters, there is no problem, and they have a backup replacement in Jacob Bethel to cover all bases. Even if an opener got injured, Bethel would still come in, and they’d find a way of moving somebody to the top. If Jamie Smith got injured, like we saw in New Zealand when he was on paternity leave, Bethel came in, and Ollie Pope kept wicket.
So, one to seven from a batting point of view has been set in stone 12 months out going in to an exciting year of Test cricket for England.
The bowlers worry me. They really do worry me. I say this with a bit of trepidation, but I have to question what our bowling identity is. For me, a bowling identity wins you Test series and wins you Test matches.
The reason Australia got to the World Test Championship Final is because the bowling attack of Pat Cummins, Mitchell Starc, Josh Hazlewood, and Nathan Lyon has been there for a while. The same with South Africa from that game, and India’s bowling attack will be exactly the same.
This series will depend a lot on how many games Jasprit Bumrah plays, because if we get overhead conditions and England batting on the wrong side of the elements, then England could struggle. We saw it in the World Test Championship Final – Cummins and Kagiso Rabada got the ball moving in those conditions. If Bumrah gets an afternoon like that in this country with the Dukes ball, he will be virtually unplayable, and I have him above the other two.
I don’t think England has anybody like that. It’s great that we’ll see Jofra Archer in the second Test, but let’s not pin too much hope on Archer because he’s been missing from red-ball cricket for quite some time. So, the bowling worries me a little bit because it’s all about having an identity.
The great sides, the teams who are the best in the world and go on a run for a long period of time, they all have a bowling identity. Unfortunately for England, their bowlers haven’t been fit enough to have a consistent four or five-man attack. It’s a bit of an individual-based set up, and we’ve seen against Zimbabwe that from a seam bowler’s point of view, we were miles short.
But you look weeks later and it’s a completely different bowling attack, so that would be my worry for England.
India in particular are entering a new era without Virat Kolhi and Rohit Sharma, how do you see the series going for both teams?
I think it will be exciting from an Indian point of view.
Sometimes, when great players leave a dressing room, it actually makes the dressing room a little bit better. Other players have to take responsibility. I imagine Shubman Gill will be relaying that message to his team about players stepping up.
They haven’t got that great player anymore who will get them out of trouble at 20-2, like Virat Kohli. Or if India need a good start, Rohit Sharma isn’t there to face 40 or 50 balls to put pressure on the bowlers straight away. It can have the effect of, “well, each of us needs to perform five per cent better to make up what has been lost.”
Even though Rohit and Kohli weren’t as fluent as they once were 10 years ago, they were still a big presence in the team. The only thing that would worry me about the India team is the amount of exposure they’ve had to cricket in England. KL Rahul is the only one who’s had a long period of international cricket in England. There’s been a couple who have featured in the County Championship, so they have had some exposure, but Test match cricket is completely different.
I look at that India team and I know they’ve got at least two world-class players in the bowling department who are very experienced in Bumrah and Ravindra Jadeja. But it’s an exciting time for Indian cricket, coming over to England without the pressure because England will just about be the favourites. When you’ve got someone like Bumrah, if he plays three or four Test matches then you can feed off what he does.
It’s an exciting batting unit, and there’s a bit of a safety net at six and seven. So they’ve got some experience in the middle- to lower- order who can potentially get them out of trouble. It’s a well-balanced side and a world-class bowler who can lead the attack, which is a potential difference maker.
India do have Jasprit Bumrah in their ranks, how difficult will it be for England’s batsmen if he’s on song?
It’ll be the same situation that Australia and South Africa batsmen faced at Lord’s. England don’t need to fear Bumrah, but they’ve got to be weary of him.
The freedom that England play with shouldn’t bring any fear into play, but if he gets overhead conditions and the ball zipping around, then good luck dealing with that. Not many people take him down in a T20 game, never mind a Test match when you’ve got three slips and a gully. He is going to be the difference and we’ve got to hope that when Archer comes back, he can give England that difference in the bowling attack.
No Mark Wood is a blow because that extra pace makes a lot of difference.
It’ll be interesting to see how they use Bumrah. He simply has to play in the first game at Headingley. There’s a bit of recovery time between the first and second Test, so potentially he’ll play the first two.
All reports coming from India are that he’ll play at least three Test matches. If they can get four out of him, then they have a great chance of winning the series. I think he has to play at Lord’s. His bowling should be suited for Lord’s with the slope.
We’ve seen that an Indian team with Bumrah and Mohammed Shami is one of the very best in the world, if not the best. An Indian team without one of them, they can be got at, and I think that’s what England have got to hope for.
If Bumrah can’t bowl all day everyday, then there are weaknesses in the bowling attack. For me, that’s what England have got to be hoping for. If they attack Bumrah all guns blazing and try to take him off his length, all of a sudden they could find themselves in real trouble at 40-3.
The other bowlers would then become a lot more pumped, so England have got to be weary of that.
Jacob Bethel has had a fine start to international cricket, do you think England should find a way to get him into the side?
He only comes into this team between one to seven. I know for a fact that England are not thinking about bringing him in for Shoaib Bashir, but if anyone thinks that Bethel for Bashir is a good move, then they need to rethink that one. You’re basically saying to Ben Stokes, “go on get injured again.”
He would have to be the fourth seamer in that scenario and even if they wanted to bring Bashir out, I would be playing four seamers.
I think the bowling attack for the first Test will be Chris Woakes, Josh Tongue, Brydon Carse, and Bashir. If anyone is asking for Bethel to come in for Bashir, then I’m sorry, but you’re asking for trouble with Ben Stokes getting injured.
I know he will bowl a lot this summer, his body is looking a million dollars, and is as good as I’ve seen him from a physicality point of view for a long time. He looks in great shape, and he will have to bowl a lot this summer purely because of the quality of opposition will mean the games go longer. Trent Bridge, for example, the pitches will be a lot flatter, so England will need Stokes to bowl spells.
If Bethel is to come into this team, he has to wait for a position between one to seven to become available. It’s strange because the only pressure on Pope from Bethel’s point of view is actually coming from Stokes and Wright. It comes from within and not the outside noise.
The decision to not bring Bethel back for the Zimbabwe game was the right decision because he wasn’t going to play. But then, Stokes sat in the press conference and said it out of nowhere before trying to retract it which obviously raises questions.
Pope did what he needed to do, he went and got 100. In picking this squad, Wright has said to Pope that he’s under pressure because Bethel is there waiting in the wings.
I don’t think many journalists put Bethel in the forefront of the conversation because they know what the one to seven will look like. The only people putting Pope under pressure are the England captain and the selectors.
What do you make of the atmosphere at Edgbaston and how does it feel being an English player when the Hollies are in full force?
It just energises you. It really gives you that extra boost.
I think what we’ve seen from the World Test Championship and what we’ll see in this first Test match is a lot of tired bodies. A lot of these players have been playing three-and-a-half-hour matches, and bowlers bowling four overs maximum.
Obviously, some have been playing in the one-day series, but many will not have played much cricket. When you get to that point where it’s 5 o’clock in the afternoon, the pitch is flat, you’ve been toiling away, and the ball is 70 overs old, the crowd plays a ridiculous part.
It is so important that all venues get behind the team because the team will need it towards the end of the day. Especially at Edgbaston, they can be very vocal, very boisterous, and noisy. They give so much back in to the players. When you’re standing at the top of your mark to this noise, you look down at your legs, thinking just give me some more.
Sometimes when there’s nobody there, you don’t get that same feeling.
When the crowd is behind you on a Friday or Saturday, it’s a huge boost and the best crowd over a weekend by far is at Edgbaston. That will be important for the players to get stuck into the last couple of hours of play and not let games drift away.
Since the last Ashes, England have had a mixed bag of results. How do you think Ben Stokes has performed as captain in that time?
I think he’s done an unbelievable job. He is the best captain we’ve ever had.
I say that having sat with Michael Vaughan for a couple of days. I believe he is the best captain England have ever had.
Forget the results, what he has done for English Test cricket should be praised.
Test cricket was dying before Ben Stokes. I might be slightly biased because of my relationship with him, but what he’s done for Test match cricket in this country is huge.
It’s had a little bit of a knock-on effect around the world, maybe not to the levels suggested by Ben Duckett. But where England were going, and this is nothing against Joe Root or Chris Silverwood, but Test cricket was gone in this country.
If Test cricket goes in this country, then it’s dead around the world. Just like it would be if it happened in India or Australia. It is so important that Test cricket survives, and those three countries are the ones who need it keep it alive.
The way Kohli spoke about Test cricket when he was captain, it was alive. But when we went out to the Caribbean for Root’s last Test series, it wasn’t a great place for Test match cricket as an Englishman.
A lot of people went off into the franchise world. They would rather play in the white ball formats and tournaments. I think because of that element, he has to be the best we’ve ever had. His legacy from a results point of view is about to be written, and they always say year three is usually the best one of the lot.
This year, hopefully for Ben and Brendon, will be the best of them all, and unfortunately with the way it’s panned out, this will be the year they’re truly judged against India and Australia.
There are far more things to be taken into account from the tenure of Ben Stokes, irrespective of the results from the next 10 Test matches. His leadership, his ability to bring a group of players together and give a nation the chance to come and watch something special for six-and-a-half hours. We’ve never seen this before in English Test cricket. Vaughan’s team played a similar style of aggression, but nothing to the level that we see now.
They are a bit brainless at times, and you just think can they reign it in sometimes, and if they did then they’d be unbelievable. But that’s the perfect world. Ben will always argue with me about this because reigning it in and playing smarter is the perfect game, and nobody plays the perfect game.
How long has Stokes still got at the top level? Could another big injury possibly spell the end for him?
It could be the end of him if he gets another bad injury, but I think Ben knows that himself. Test cricket is very difficult, and that’s just one Test match, never mind five in the space of six weeks. Then he’ll have five more in seven weeks over in Australia, so it is massive on his body.
When I last saw him, he had a twinkle in his eye, and I think he looked amazing from a body condition point of view. He bowled very well in the short time he bowled, so I think it’s a big year for Ben Stokes. If I’ve got one wish from the cricketing side, it would be that Ben Stokes has had the best Test cricket year of his life.
It would obviously be great for England because with bat and ball, he is a special player. He’s probably as close now as he was three or four years ago, physicality wise. It’s just whether the body holds up to be an all-rounder, and I really hope he pulls through.
If he were to get injured, then I give England no chance. England are a completely different side without his leadership qualities.
Brendan McCullum is now the head coach for all forms, do you think this will benefit England overall?
I think it benefits England massively. I feel sorry for Matthew Mott because he had no chance when he was the coach. The big players were getting themselves ready for the Ashes, and he got the players he wanted for the T20 World Cup. I felt for him, and I felt for Jos Butler.
I think two different captains can work, but for the coaches it’s very difficult. Especially when the captains are so different as well. Stokes is loud as a leader, whereas Butler is a more reserved type. He wasn’t a bad captain, but the qualities he had were a lot different as a leader.
There was probably an element of dispute with players, but now I think with McCullum across the board will plan out the roadmap for the players. The problem we have with English cricket is the amount England are demanded to play. If you can get McCullum to oversee everything, then it’ll be a lot smoother.
If I was in charge of England cricket, I want the one coach, and I wouldn’t be fussed if he didn’t go to the odd series.
For example if it’s a white ball tour in the Caribbean followed by Test matches in Pakistan, like we had last year, then McCullum doesn’t need to be there and his focus can be on the Test side. You can send Paul Collingwood, Jeetan Patel or Marcus Trescothick to be the head figure because they’ve been working with the team for so long.
England have a great bunch of players, they’ve had 24 players in the past two years, and in my time following the team commentating, the coaching staff are really good people. They’re so accommodating, humble, and they all work very hard. I don’t think we’ve had a better lot of ambassadors than England have now.
Sometimes you need a few rough diamonds in there, the likes of Kevin Pietersen, but these guys will win you matches.
McCullum knows this group of players, and they respond well to him, so having him in charge of all formats will only benefit English cricket. The two captains work as well. Harry Brook is someone brought in by Stokes, moulded him into a great player on the international side, so there’s an element of respect between them.
I think it’s great to see that Brook can go off and find his wings as a captain then fall back into Stokes’ regime as a Test match player, which I think is the perfect storm.
God forbid we lose to India and Australia, but if that happens, we’ve got question marks over the captain and the coach. But we’ve got a ready-made replacement if Stokes does decide to call it a day or if his body packs in.
James Anderson and Stuart Broad retiring at the same time was a big loss for England’s bowling attack, what have you made of the replacements so far?
The Broad and Anderson retirements remind me of Australia in my playing days when four or five of their players called it a day. This Australian side will have the same problem, but for England we had Broad and Anderson.
In fairness, I think Jimmy was forced to retire a little bit. I’m sure he would love to still be out there playing. He’ll be looking at the squad and thinking he’s still better than what’s currently available, so I think that’s why he’s stepped away to a certain extent.
It probably wasn’t wise losing them both in the same series, but over the years, countless have tried to faze one of them out. Ed Smith tried countless times to get Stuart Broad out, but he couldn’t because no one else could come in and perform at that consistent level. You couldn’t get either out of the team because they were so good and reliable.
This is the thing for me now, you knew what the bowling identity was with Broad and Anderson. The current bowlers don’t bowl anywhere near enough, they get injured a lot, and there’s not a level of consistency to performances.
We haven’t really identified what our best four bowlers are or what are the strongest characteristics from our four bowlers to build an attack for a game plan.
Against Zimbabwe, we saw an example of this – they’re bowling to suit their individual needs rather than helping the man at the other end and trying to create partnerships. That comes with time, but like I said, the players coming in are simply not bowling enough.
Woakes hasn’t bowled much since January, Carse has been out injured, and if you get three Test matches out of Tongue, then you’ve done well. I’m surprised he’s bowled the most coming into this India series, but it’s a good sign because he is a talent.
Fingers crossed they get hit the ground running, and hopefully they start to build something that can click together.
Could you see either Broad or Anderson returning to the set up as a coach for the upcoming Ashes series?
I don’t see it happening; that bowling coaching role is yet to be identified.
They both would fit into the system. McCullum doesn’t let anyone interfere with the dressing room, especially in a Test series. It would suit either of them should it happen one day, as they’ve both spent a lot of time in that dressing room.
I think it was brilliant from South Africa to bring Broad in for that afternoon and seeing him in a South Africa kit for the training session. It winded a few Australians up seeing him give tips to the South African bowlers, so it was a masterstroke really for three hours of his time.
I suppose the Ashes isn’t on Sky, so that would free Broad’s time up to potentially go along as he would be available. But Stuart’s got a young family, I’m not too sure he’ll want to be away at Christmas from his family, or drag his family out to Australia.
I’d be amazed if Broad goes, and for Anderson I’m not sure either.
Tim Southee is obviously there at the moment, and he’s best friends with McCullum, so obviously there’s a level of trust from McCullum towards Southee.
There was a lot of eyebrows raised when Southee came in, but Pep Guardiola wouldn’t bring an ex-Manchester City player in. He brings someone in who’s best for the job, and I think McCullum has the same mindset. McCullum’s best quality is his trust and loyalty towards his staff and players, so I’ve got no problem with Southee being there.
A lot of people are maybe offended by the fact that England hired another foreign coach, but for me I’m happy with it, and I trust McCullum’s judgement.
Jofra Archer is someone who could make a difference if he’s fully fit, if he gets back to some sort of form would you take him to Australia?
If Jofra Archer plays just one Test match in Australia, then it’s a huge boost to this England team, and that’s the same with Mark Wood.
Mark Wood is trying to start his rehab and come back into the set up, so if England can get Archer and Wood fit, then it brings in a whole different element to the bowling attack.
Like I’ve said, the bowling attack is the worry, but on the flip side, it’s potentially a good worry because you don’t know where this bowling attack could be by the time we get to Australia. Tongue, Carse, and Woakes could blow India away, then all of a sudden you’re excited about this bowling unit. The switch could come very quickly, then you add Wood and Archer into the mix.
The identity could quickly mirror the batting: pace, power, and aggression. That’s why it’s difficult at the moment because the identity is unknown, but if you can drip feed Wood and Archer in, along with what they’ve got, then it starts to look a bit more exciting.
Sam Cook and Jamie Overton are waiting in the wings as well, and Gus Atkinson could return as well, so it’s not a bad attack, potentially going to Australia.
First and foremost though, these guys have got to stay fit. If you chop and change your attack from game to game, then you’ve got no chance in my eyes.
There’s a reason Australia are one of the best teams in the world, and that is because they have a settled bowling attack with the likes of Scott Boland, who can come in from time to time. That, for me, is the difference. Batsmen set up games, but bowlers win matches.
What do you think England’s chances are of regaining the Ashes?
If everyone is on form and fit, then I think England have a great chance.
That’s on both sides. We all know Australia in their own back garden will always be difficult. England have won there twice since the mid-80s, so the record isn’t great going into the Ashes series.
There are just a few cracks in this Aussie team. There’s a lot of ageing bodies.
That’s not to say they won’t be any good – they’ll be difficult on home soil, but if we’ve got a fit Wood, a fit Archer, fit Carse, and fit Tongue, that’s four bowlers with a lot of aggression. They can hit the pitch hard and make the ball go through the air quickly on Australian surfaces. Throw Atkinson in the mix, Woakes as well I wouldn’t rule out, and Cook from what he’s done with the Lions and how effective he was.
England will have a great chance, the batsmen will be more suited to those wickets compared to English conditions. On paper, England have a great chance, but as we all know the game isn’t played on paper.
It will be down to who turns up under the pressure of the Ashes, and that’s why Australia are favourites because of that experience. England could surprise a few, though, if they can get every bowler fit, but it’s a big if.
Back in 2005 you got Michael Clarke with that slower ball at such a crucial stage in the game and series, where does that wicket rank as your all-time favourites?
It’s certainly up there.
The truth is I was absolutely knackered by this point, and I was talking about it the other day at a Q&A with Vaughan, Matthew Hoggard, and Simon Jones. It all came about because we claimed the extra half an hour at the end of the day.
Michael Clarke, Brett Lee, and Shane Warne were unbelievable in that series at the bottom end of the batting order. It was something like my eighth or ninth over at the end of the day in a row, and I must have thrown everything at Clarke.
It was the last over of the day, and we were trying to get Warne on strike. I must have hit Clarke in the ribs, one past his shoulder, and I tried to put one on his legs so Shane would have to be on strike. Shane wouldn’t have just stood there if the single was on with the bravado he had, and he wouldn’t have liked the boos if he stood there. We knew that, but it didn’t happen, and I was absolutely shattered by that point.
I had tried everything, and I actually had the worst slower ball in cricket, but the only person who’s not picked it is Michael Clarke.
I remember bowling three in a row to MS Dhoni not long after that series in India. The first went eight rows back, and the second went even further.
Andrew Flintoff, who was captain at that time, came up and asked what I was doing, so I told him Dhoni wouldn’t be expecting three in a row, to which he replied, ‘Neither am I’.
However, Dhoni did expect it and hit it even further into the stands, so it was a terrible slower ball I had in my locker. But it was one of those moments where it was pure theatre in that 2005 Ashes, and thankfully it paid off on that occasion.
The best wicket I ever got was Ricky Ponting at Lord’s. Ponting was the best player I ever played against, and to nick him off in the first Test match at Lord’s in an Ashes series was a special one.
That’s what made the series so special to play in. I don’t think we’ll ever see one like that again in terms of the drama.
This series could have a lot of twists and turns. I don’t think we’ll be seeing a 5-0 or 4-1, I think it’ll be 3-2 either way.
